Wednesday, March 12, 2008

How have you surprised yourself in SL?


  • The 3rd life group is going to make an event on 18 March 2008, 2 PM SLT. Anyone is welcome to meet there and discuss our topic "How have You surprised Yourself in Secondlife ? "
  • This post is meant to ask everyone the same question. You can start discussing and commenting from now, here! :)

First meeting from 2Pm-3pm ( Recorded by Mollie Servei )
    [14:04] Ahmad Hosho looks at his clock, it is 2:03 pm
    [14:04] Ahmad Hosho: Ladies and gentlemen allow me to welcome You in our 3rd life meeting.
    [14:05] Ahmad Hosho: The meeting today has no topics, but only 1 question:
    [14:05] Ahmad Hosho: How have you surprised yourself in SL?
    [14:06] Ahmad Hosho: Gracie last time said she has discovered new things about her self in 2nd life.
    [14:06] Ahmad Hosho: i better set :)
    [14:06] Ahmad Hosho: and what gracie said made us think to make it a topic for today discussion.
    [14:07] You: yes well I've only been in 2nd life for 3 months
    [14:07] Ahmad Hosho: Is the question clear?
    [14:07] You: yes Ahmad
    [14:08] You: I have been surprised at myself in these past three months
    [14:08] Ahmad Hosho: Yes u like to tell how?
    [14:08] You: talking with people is time-intensive so I tend to be more concise with what I have to say
    [14:08] You: get to the point quicker
    [14:09] You: including about topics that are very personal
    [14:09] Latha Serevi types so fast she doesn't ever get to the poitn, hardly.
    [14:09] You: lol
    [14:09] Ahmad Hosho: I think this mean You have communicated with more people in SL, than in RL. Which is the same to me.
    [14:09] florenze Kerensky: brb relogging
    [14:10] Ahmad Hosho: Flo: tyt.
    [14:10] Reginald Euler: hello
    [14:10] Barney Boomslang: hey reginald
    [14:10] Reginald Euler: I see the discussion is going on
    [14:10] You: I am at a crossroads in my career... second career... I have a friend who is pushing me to think about what I really want from my career
    [14:10] You: hi Reg
    [14:10] Ahmad Hosho: welcome reginald :) please have a seat.
    [14:10] Barney Boomslang: we just started, no worries
    [14:10] You: have a seat
    [14:10] Ahmad Hosho: we just start.
    [14:10] Ahmad Hosho runs the topic: how did u surprise ur self in SL?
    [14:11] Ahmad Hosho: Ic.
    [14:11] Reginald Euler: but it is the same as RL
    [14:11] Reginald Euler: so no surprises :(
    [14:11] Ahmad Hosho: well it is the same and not the same in same time :)
    [14:11] You: oh I've had a lot more thoughtful conversations with people I meet here
    [14:12] Ahmad Hosho: welcome buffy :)
    [14:12] You: when you see people just like yourself... it's easy to stay in the chitchat
    [14:12] Latha Serevi: Since your'e forced to reinvent yourself right off the bat, and have so much latitude to do so, I do find that SL gives you a chance to see how you'll like to present yourself in an unfamiliar environment. I started out thinking, I don't want to be a glossy 6'3" supermodel like eveyrone else. I started chubby with gray hair, as well as short and dark skin tone like now. But I guess I have just enough vanity trhat I wanted to be able to put on some dancin' shoes and be socially acceptable... So I guess I'm just a titch more shallow than I trhunk.
    [14:12] Buffy Munro: hi :))
    [14:12] Ahmad Hosho: i have read some article telling that when we communicate online. we are less shy.
    [14:12] You: :) Latha
    [14:12] Latha Serevi: Told ya I type fast.
    [14:13] You: you do!
    [14:13] Chrisy Darwin: Hi
    [14:13] Latha Serevi: (this is my most conservative outfit, btw. I have a nice sari and some hip-hop-ish stuff when I'm feeling cooler)
    [14:13] You: hi Buffy, Chrisy, Bibi
    [14:13] Ahmad Hosho: Latha: did u surprise ur self that way :)
    [14:14] Bibi Book: Hi!
    [14:14] Ahmad Hosho: Hi bibi.
    [14:14] Latha Serevi: I surprised myself by needing acceptance more than I thought I would.
    [14:14] Barney Boomslang: wb flo
    [14:14] Ahmad Hosho: acceptance from who? :)
    [14:14] Ahmad Hosho: i like ur avatar acutally.
    [14:14] Latha Serevi: Whoever's around, I want to like me.
    [14:14] florenze Kerensky: ty
    [14:14] Ahmad Hosho: wb flo.
    [14:14] You: oh but I think that's human nature
    [14:14] Latha Serevi: I've been practicing being mean -- something I'm really bad at in RL, I am never unkind -- but I can't do it here either.
    [14:15] Bibi Book: Hm... One cannot make all people like one
    [14:15] Ahmad Hosho: that's right. but may be i feel she says they judge her because of her avatar?
    [14:15] Barney Boomslang: <- grumpy gargoyle. being unfriendly comes with the avatar ;)
    [14:16] Latha Serevi: Not even if I am pleasant, never cause conflict, suck up, and back down whenever challenged? I think I can be not-disliked almost all the time. Not to say it isnj't pathological of me.
    [14:16] You: I have a friend who says I"m as prickly as a porcupine... but that's not me at all
    [14:16] You: he just irritates the bejeezus out of me and I let him have it regularly
    [14:16] Ahmad Hosho: i see
    [14:17] You: so I'm less likely to hold back with him
    [14:17] Buffy Munro: of course people judge you on your avi
    [14:17] florenze Kerensky: would you be like that if you were with him in rl?
    [14:17] Bibi Book: Latha: maybe, it is that you never are conflicting and try to be pleasant?
    [14:17] You: probably, he reminds me a lot of my husband :)
    [14:17] You decline GLAMSHACK, THE, Joiner (89, 83, 30) from A group member named MacKenzie Rasmuson.
    [14:17] Chrisy Darwin: mabe he is ;-)
    [14:18] You: noooo lol
    [14:18] Ahmad Hosho: i have been surprised i was very open about my self in internet, and it is important to have some privacy. :)
    [14:18] You: I agree Ahmad, I kick myself if I give out too much information
    [14:19] Ahmad Hosho: Bibi has taught me some communication tricks.
    [14:19] You: like what?
    [14:19] Bibi Book: Have I?
    [14:19] Ahmad Hosho: well, like 30% of females u meet may be men. in RL.
    [14:19] You: yeah I've heard that
    [14:20] Reginald Euler: so how you test them?
    [14:20] You: I have friends who have female avatars
    [14:20] Reginald Euler: are they really man or woman?
    [14:20] You: who are men
    [14:20] You: can't you just imagine Reg?
    [14:20] You: our pool party at DL today?
    [14:20] Ahmad Hosho: reginald, i dont think there is a specific way. but i guess i start to deal with it like a chess game.
    [14:20] Reginald Euler: I think 100% chickens in SL are humans in RL
    [14:20] Barney Boomslang: well, what I allways wondered about: why test them? I mean, what's the person - what they are at the keyboard, or what they do here? sure, if you want to go down and cyber with them, you might be interested in what they actually are, but well - for normal conversations?
    [14:21] Barney Boomslang: reginald: I am not too sure. on the intenret, nobody knows whether you are a chicken or not ;)
    [14:21] You: hi Chev
    [14:21] Bibi Book: Only in a few sitioations it may be important to know
    [14:21] Ahmad Hosho: i agree with bibi.
    [14:21] You: very true
    [14:21] Barney Boomslang: well, sure, they might be situations where it is important - but are they that common?
    [14:22] Chev Carver: Hi Mollie
    [14:22] Barney Boomslang: in most situations I think it is completely irrelevant.
    [14:22] Ahmad Hosho: but it is not very surprising to me. what is really surprising is: the contrast between males and females looks like it is being melt with some groups.
    [14:22] You: sorry Ahmad I don't follow you
    [14:22] Ahmad Hosho: i had noticed that told many times by fashion designers in RL
    [14:22] Latha Serevi: Probably has more to do with people's emotional involvement and gender identity -- "ooh, icky, does that m ean I'm gay?"
    [14:22] Reginald Euler: ok sorry, I have to go
    [14:23] Barney Boomslang: latha: probably.
    [14:23] You: bye Reg
    [14:23] Ahmad Hosho: ok reginald, thak u for coming.
    [14:23] Bibi Book: bye reginald
    [14:23] Ahmad Hosho: Mollie: what u dont follow.
    [14:23] You: the contrast between men and women what?
    [14:24] Ahmad Hosho: mollie: recently i have saw some fashion designers speaking about the fact : the more we be modern, the less contrast between men and women clothes is.
    [14:25] You: oh ok that makes sense
    [14:25] Bibi Book: waht those I know to be men told me: to get easier in contact with women (some not for the best reasons)
    [14:25] Ahmad Hosho: it is told it has something to do with the communcation too.
    [14:25] Bibi Book: some like to wear women's clothing
    [14:25] Bibi Book: and some hide being gay
    [14:25] You: well I'm exploring things about myself... never though I'd wear fairy wing
    [14:25] Ahmad Hosho: yes these facts surprised me a bit.
    [14:25] You: s
    [14:25] Bibi Book: easier to meet with the beloved then
    [14:26] Bibi Book: may be not that common for europeans
    [14:26] Ahmad Hosho: yes i see
    [14:26] You: it's fun to explore new personas
    [14:26] Buffy Munro: sorry what is not common for europeans?
    [14:27] Ahmad Hosho: mollie point makes sense too: communcation with a lot of people in sl more than in rl.
    [14:27] Bibi Book: that gay men would hide behind one being a man and one being a woman
    [14:27] You: I wonder how common that is
    [14:27] Bibi Book: if they can marry and walk hand inn hand on the street here, why should they hide in SL?
    [14:28] Chev Carver: less then 5 percent id bet
    [14:28] Chrisy Darwin: but gay men want to met other men. and as a women they would meet the "wrong" type of man, wouldnt they?
    [14:28] Messalina Messerchmitt: i met a 60 year old man the other day who has a male and a female av
    [14:28] Bibi Book: Chrisy: they meet in ceratin pleaces or they are already a pair in RL
    [14:28] Buffy Munro: maybe they dont mind if they only want sex
    [14:28] You: yes Messalina, I have friends who are men with female avis
    [14:29] Messalina Messerchmitt: only he wanetd me to get a male av so I could go with his female one. a bit weird!
    [14:29] Chev Carver: its 2008...
    [14:29] Ahmad Hosho: some people just do it as a RP too.
    [14:30] Chrisy Darwin: well, tht is one thing that keeps surprising me: how people can be so obsess with SL-sex. For me its just bad manga sex. it does nothing for me...
    [14:30] Messalina Messerchmitt: Seems to do a lot for some people!
    [14:30] Bibi Book: and waht I have heard lately: to get the experience how it is as a woman - how people act different
    [14:30] You: I have no interest in having a male avatar... but maybe someday I'll change my mind
    [14:30] Chev Carver: and for others its like hightened masterbation
    [14:31] Ahmad Hosho: i know many people married from sl in rl.
    [14:31] Messalina Messerchmitt: And vice versa, like me!
    [14:31] Chrisy Darwin: Cev, the internet offers mutch petter pics for mastrubation than the Sl cartoon figures.....
    [14:31] You: you know what's funny... I have an alt... and was around people I know very well in SL... they didn't greet me when I saw them today. That was an eye-opener
    [14:32] Messalina Messerchmitt: Do they know who the alt is?
    [14:32] Chev Carver: yes bit its different when you know the cartoon character is a real person
    [14:32] You: no they didn't
    [14:33] Chrisy Darwin: Chev, thise in the pics and videos are real as well. but, ok, point taken
    [14:33] You: but I had told them that I had one and that I was going to log in as her later
    [14:33] You: to vote for someone
    [14:33] Ahmad Hosho: ok another thing i have been surprised about is: Big percent of what is told about others ( like other cultres ) in media, doesn't look the same at all when u know them.
    [14:33] You: hi Tony
    [14:33] Antony Chihuly: now then
    [14:33] Bibi Book: Mollie; sounds silly
    [14:33] Chev Carver: big surprise mainsteam media lieing about something....sigh
    [14:34] Ahmad Hosho: chev: yes, i guess i had a lot of surprises like that.
    [14:34] Antony Chihuly: room for a small one lol
    [14:34] Buffy Munro: lol
    [14:34] Bibi Book: depends on the media, I think
    [14:35] Chev Carver: if its not mainsteam then maybe
    [14:35] Buffy Munro: i know
    [14:35] Buffy Munro: oops wrong window
    [14:35] Buffy Munro: i am a stereo typical blonde
    [14:35] Ahmad Hosho: may be i can say it is also in relation of what other cultres think in general about others. well the media can make sometimes a basic wrong idea in the cultre itself.
    [14:36] You: or sometimes they don't cover that culture at all
    [14:36] Antony Chihuly: i dont believe you buffy lol
    [14:36] Buffy Munro: lol
    [14:36] Chev Carver: indeed, thats why it is healthy to question its motives at all times
    [14:36] Buffy Munro: ok maybe i act more stupid than i am
    [14:37] Bibi Book: Ahmad: but media is a reflection of society, too
    [14:37] Chev Carver: no it is not
    [14:37] florenze Kerensky agrees with chev
    [14:37] Chev Carver: society is a reflection of the media you mean
    [14:37] Antony Chihuly: no way i have known you for hmm it must be about 1min 30 secs and i think your great lol
    [14:37] Chrisy Darwin: and the media has to fullfill the expectations of its readers to be read.... bad spiral
    [14:37] Buffy Munro: lol
    [14:37] You: well to sell
    [14:37] Bibi Book: both, chev
    [14:37] Messalina Messerchmitt: Media sometimes likes to project aspirations that are not attainable in rl
    [14:38] Buffy Munro: oh you are from the uk?
    [14:38] Antony Chihuly: aye
    [14:38] Messalina Messerchmitt: But anything is possible in sl!
    [14:38] Buffy Munro: cool
    [14:38] Messalina Messerchmitt: Yes Im from England
    [14:38] Buffy Munro: me too
    [14:38] Buffy Munro: lol
    [14:38] Diva Regina: Late, as usual, Diva climbs on bandwagon with Flo and Chev.
    [14:38] Chev Carver: the media is owned my wealthy people who want to make more money
    [14:38] Messalina Messerchmitt: lol
    [14:38] Barney Boomslang: well, first th ing would be to define "the media"
    [14:38] You: right and scandal sells
    [14:39] Barney Boomslang: there is no such thing as a homogenous "media" at all
    [14:39] You: wb Ahmad
    [14:39] Barney Boomslang: is scientific american or geo part of media?
    [14:39] Ahmad Hosho: ty sorry
    [14:39] Barney Boomslang: they are _very_ different from for example the london sun or the german bild
    [14:39] Diva Regina: I'd be thinking of large commercial broad range outlets, such as news bureaus, newspapers and magazines, and television
    [14:39] Bibi Book: in europe in most country only the right winged could puzblis "muslims are all evil"
    [14:39] Chrisy Darwin: i asume we meen mas media if we say media (not blogs etc)
    [14:39] Bibi Book: Muslims
    [14:39] Bibi Book: in US that wold be easy
    [14:39] Barney Boomslang: and even if you take daily media - you have both the worst and the best. new your times is quite different than for example the sun
    [14:39] Messalina Messerchmitt: Its not easy to say that in the UK
    [14:40] Diva Regina: But the fiction of unbiased coverage and approach is just that, a fiction, I think.
    [14:40] Bibi Book: I guess that is the reason why the transcript of bush's speach was not the same as I heard before live
    [14:40] Diva Regina: Whether highbrow or low.
    [14:40] Messalina Messerchmitt: they cater for different ends of society
    [14:40] Barney Boomslang: oh , of course, publication is allways biased in a way - everyone publishing has an agenda
    [14:41] Ahmad Hosho: in egypt they think europe and USA agrees with each others at everything :) / it is based on fact when America decide to make a war, no one stops it.
    [14:41] You: right in cluding bloggers
    [14:41] Messalina Messerchmitt: but the 'highbrow' newspapers tend to more impartial
    [14:41] Diva Regina: I don't know about that Messalina.
    [14:41] Barney Boomslang: but the agenda doesn't necessarily inflict damage on the published content - like for example the political agenda of the new york times won't necessarily influence it's sport reporting ;)
    [14:41] Ahmad Hosho: as long as they dont bother our king tomb " tut ankh amun "
    [14:41] Diva Regina: I've seen very "intellectual" newspapers covering something I knew all about, and they got it very wrong.
    [14:41] Messalina Messerchmitt: hehehe
    [14:42] Chrisy Darwin: Messalina, they write what thear reads expect. If they start writing lihe Sun / Bild, their reads will not buy them the next time
    [14:42] Messalina Messerchmitt: but it seems that lowere ned papers always adopt a definite stance
    [14:42] Messalina Messerchmitt: end
    [14:42] You: Welcome Azer, Sidda
    [14:42] Bibi Book: Chrisy: yes
    [14:42] Ahmad Hosho: i see.
    [14:42] Diva Regina: At least they're honest about it.
    [14:42] Sidda Leigh: ty molls
    [14:42] Sidda Leigh: hello everyone
    [14:42] Diva Regina: hello
    [14:42] Buffy Munro: hi :)
    [14:42] florenze Kerensky: i think problem with media isn't so much what they put out but that most today don't use any critical thinking... they accept what they see, hear, read as what is
    [14:42] Azer Enriquez: hi
    [14:42] Antony Chihuly: now then sidda
    [14:43] Chev Carver: indeed florenze
    [14:43] Diva Regina: It's interesting too, what doesn't get covered.
    [14:43] Barney Boomslang: flo: well, even that - is it really over the whole field of media? what about the NYT? what about the washington post? Just two papers in the states.
    [14:43] Bibi Book: flo: yes. it is written black on white and must be true
    [14:43] Barney Boomslang: what about the "Zeit" in Germany?
    [14:43] Messalina Messerchmitt: some papers hope that their audience wont use any critical thinking either!
    [14:43] Antony Chihuly: th emedia puts out what will sell news though
    [14:43] Diva Regina: If an event isn't thought of as being "ok", sometimes it never appears, no matter how well attended, etc.
    [14:43] Barney Boomslang: sure, they all have an agenda - but does it automatically make them all the same? I think you can still get a lot out of "normal" media channels
    [14:43] florenze Kerensky: barney.... the average person doesn't read that.
    [14:43] Ahmad Hosho: media has to make some distortions to sell too. they will not make the media allow people think there is any normal day in our life :)
    [14:44] Diva Regina: That critical thinking Flo talked about is pretty important.
    [14:44] Bibi Book: but even Zeit has taken out articles
    [14:44] Antony Chihuly: its niot th emedia you need to worry about in rl its the government
    [14:44] Diva Regina: If there was time, it would be good to read a variety of viewpoints, but we tend to just scan the top paragraph and leave it at that.
    [14:44] Bibi Book: tha tis the problem: people read Bild and Sun
    [14:44] Chrisy Darwin: Anthony: and thats the advantage of public media. Look at the TV news in the US. even CNN. only hype and zero content
    [14:44] Bibi Book: or nothing at all
    [14:44] Diva Regina: that would depend on where you were, Antony, I'd think.
    [14:44] Barney Boomslang: well, sure, the average person sucks. that's just a function of statistics ;)
    [14:44] Diva Regina: In some places, you're absolutely correc t.
    [14:45] Diva Regina: haha
    [14:45] Sidda Leigh: barney lol
    [14:45] Diva Regina: Make that into a t-shirt, Barney.
    [14:45] Messalina Messerchmitt: lol
    [14:45] Antony Chihuly: does it diva are you really sure all governmts are run by a similar cause though
    [14:45] Chev Carver: oh you must worry about media when they say your tap water is healthy and its full of crap that would kill a mouse in days
    [14:45] Barney Boomslang: but still - I am a bit careful about this whole "learn about cultures" thing - you see, in here, you don't really learn about cultures - you learn about individuals
    [14:45] Bibi Book: Fox made Bush president announcing befiore the results have been out
    [14:45] Ahmad Hosho if u have problem following the chat, u can just click " local chat " button to see it in a bigger window.
    [14:45] Bibi Book: and most of the other media followed
    [14:45] Barney Boomslang: for example a report in the scientific american about an asian culture will be much more informative than meeting one p erson who hapens to live in that land
    [14:46] Chrisy Darwin: goverments are run by people wh want to be reellected to keep their joby... in the west that is. and is that a good motive?
    [14:46] Barney Boomslang: because the sciam will have more, broader, input to spread for an article, while the individual comes with it's own baggage
    [14:46] Messalina Messerchmitt: there are a lot of people in here that wont even say where they come from, let alone their culture
    [14:46] Ahmad Hosho: Barney: the report can misslead u too.
    [14:46] Chev Carver: Chrisy that isint it at all
    [14:46] Barney Boomslang: for example, I think it would be silly to extrapolate the egyptian culture from ahmads behaviour :)
    [14:46] Chev Carver: They are chosen puppets
    [14:46] Antony Chihuly: whsy that then messalina
    [14:46] Bibi Book: Barney: waht you need is both ressources: good reports and contact to people
    [14:47] Barney Boomslang: bibi: yes. the mix is what saves you there
    [14:47] Chrisy Darwin: that hev to be ellected to do and keep their jobs Chv, same thing
    [14:47] Barney Boomslang: you need broad reporting - and that can only come through media channels, as individuals rarely have the resources to do so - and have to merge that with what you hear from individuals
    [14:47] Ahmad Hosho: Barney: that's right. but if u ask me about something in october war. i may tell u about a book u never know. which written by our priedent. :)
    [14:47] Messalina Messerchmitt: the ones who say 'dont ask about my rl' there are very many
    [14:47] Chev Carver: and you think the election is legitimate? all done on computers now?
    [14:47] Bibi Book: But good and many reporsts can ake you having a better view on waht a single person tells/says
    [14:48] Antony Chihuly: yeah but isnt that because they treat rl as rl and sl as an escape from that
    [14:48] florenze Kerensky: chris... yes they are elected to do and keep jobs, but how educated on the majority of people who vote for them, how do they make theier choices?
    [14:48] Barney Boomslang: people lie, but media lie, too. sometimes they just get things wrong - it's human to make errors.
    [14:48] Barney Boomslang: bibi: yes. both sides - that way each side can "control" the others content.
    [14:48] Messalina Messerchmitt: yes, but it doesnt get you far when youre trying to meet people and learn from other cultures
    [14:49] Antony Chihuly: but isnt that their choice and not anyone elses business
    [14:49] Messalina Messerchmitt: i have met people who pretend to be a different nationality from what thhey are
    [14:49] Ahmad Hosho: i bare in my mind when someone asks about my cultre, to answere the most accurate answere which could be found in our resources. :) but again.. that opened a surprise to me too. many people doesnt know ur resources or what ur people has written about themselves. they prefer to read what their own authors have written about us
    [14:49] Bibi Book: You need toleanr to find out when people lie - not believe everything
    [14:49] Barney Boomslang: <- is a gargoyle, and since that comes from garguille, a french dragon, I guess that makes me french ;)
    [14:49] Chev Carver: One of the programmers testified in court about the voting machines he programed for admitting to program it to cheat the ellection for Bush
    [14:49] You: you're kidding Chev
    [14:49] You: wow
    [14:49] Chev Carver: go youtube it
    [14:50] Chrisy Darwin: florence. you didnt get the point. they have to be ellected or reellected to have a job. never mind if what they do is correct or if they themselfs believe in what they do. as long as the voters like it.....
    [14:50] Antony Chihuly: but at the end of the day tho thats they have made the choice to do that i wouldnt loose any sleep over it myself
    [14:50] Barney Boomslang: chev: the problem with voting machines is that they need paper trails to be controllable. if you don't have them, an election made with them is worth shit. *shrug* - they are as dumb around here, now, though :/
    [14:50] Bibi Book: some reports are in the internet from official sides, too
    [14:50] Chev Carver: agreed paper is the only way
    [14:51] Ahmad Hosho: it depends on who will open the papers then :)
    [14:51] florenze Kerensky: paper is the only way IF they don't have chads :)
    [14:51] Bibi Book: Ahmad: that still is, yes
    [14:51] Bibi Book: and who publishes results
    [14:51] Chev Carver: thats not to mention the actual criminals that work the voting places
    [14:51] Bibi Book: my grandpa was in KZ becaus he told that resuklts were wrong
    [14:51] Ahmad Hosho: bibi: that too.
    [14:52] Barney Boomslang: ahmad: yes, paper can be fiddled with, too. but the thing is: paper trails _can_ be controlled. bits in storage not. :)
    [14:52] Chev Carver: yea you can watch paper be counted
    [14:52] Ahmad Hosho: the whole topic is tottaly not known here, here people think americans voted for bush because they liked him :)
    [14:52] Chev Carver: and watch how its trasported
    [14:52] Bibi Book: yes, Chev
    [14:52] Chev Carver: and you watch the guys count them too
    [14:52] Ahmad Hosho: but not everyone thinks so, it is a general phrase u can hear here.
    [14:53] Bibi Book: Ahmad: too many like him - or do not know waht to elect
    [14:53] Sidda Leigh: al gore wone the popular vote
    [14:53] Sidda Leigh: bush won the delegates
    [14:54] Sidda Leigh: i did not vote for bush
    [14:54] Bibi Book: and too many "like" Angela
    [14:54] You: but that's the way it's been set up for 200 years
    [14:54] florenze Kerensky: ahmad... you need to understand that most in VR environments tend to be out of the main stream. so you would be inclined to meet more of those who, let's say, didn't vote for bush then you would in rl
    [14:54] Ahmad Hosho: bibi: acutally the discussions which has held in deviantART ( the largest online art community ) between europeans, americans, israel people and egyptians. has opened a lot of eyes about different facts in both cultres.
    [14:54] Barney Boomslang: flo: yes, that's one problem - people you meet in here _are_ allready a bit different than the average person
    [14:54] Messalina Messerchmitt: are you saying we're weird/
    [14:54] Messalina Messerchmitt: lol
    [14:55] Barney Boomslang: yep. we are freaks.
    [14:55] florenze Kerensky: yes messalina, we uber geeks :)
    [14:55] florenze Kerensky: lol
    [14:55] Antony Chihuly: speak for yourself lol
    [14:55] Sidda Leigh: evagelicals who support bush are not usually on second life
    [14:55] Bibi Book: Barney: isn't it more that europeans might not have muc contact to other americans?
    [14:55] Sidda Leigh: evangelicals
    [14:55] Ahmad Hosho: i am not sure if we can really know what class is the person who connect in sl.
    [14:55] Chev Carver: Well it doent much matter now, voting is obsolete now that US is now Nazi Germany, Bush is not a dictator so..
    [14:55] Messalina Messerchmitt: I find you cant talk about sl to people that dont know it. they dont understand at all
    [14:55] Barney Boomslang: bibi: I wouldn't be able to judge - I am european and only know freaks ;)
    [14:55] Bibi Book: I guess some only would not like to have contact with me, becaus I am a witch
    [14:55] Antony Chihuly: there is alsorts of people on sl now
    [14:56] Chrisy Darwin: Sidda, go to some of the christian sims and be very surprised :-)
    [14:56] Antony Chihuly: when i joined there was not even 1mill now hteres much more
    [14:56] Sidda Leigh: im not saying all
    [14:56] Sidda Leigh: im saying in general
    [14:56] Ahmad Hosho: yes
    [14:56] You: I have to be very careful about what I say to whom about SL in RL
    [14:56] Barney Boomslang: well, I'd say even the religious nuts inworld won't be the run-of-the-mill religious nuts.
    [14:56] Chrisy Darwin: I gree Molli, same goes for me
    [14:56] Messalina Messerchmitt: why do you think that Mollie/
    [14:56] Antony Chihuly: well why should you talk about it in rl
    [14:57] Barney Boomslang: you see - you _have_ to have a computer with capability to run this stuff and you need a decent connection to the internet and you need to hang out on the internet for quite a while
    [14:57] Bibi Book: Barney: I think, you are wrong with that
    [14:57] You: well my line of work, I work for a school district
    [14:57] Antony Chihuly: you dont talk about when you go to the toilet in rl to other peple do you
    [14:57] Antony Chihuly: why is that ?
    [14:57] Antony Chihuly: because its a private thing
    [14:57] Ahmad Hosho: barney: that may happen in near future. and it is growing.
    [14:57] Antony Chihuly: same as anyrhign else that os private
    [14:57] Buffy Munro: some people do
    [14:57] Barney Boomslang: I'd say people in here allways will be different than those outside - they will be maybe in similar group-distributions, but they won't be the same like th ose outside.
    [14:57] Messalina Messerchmitt: er, I hadnt thought of it like that, Antony!
    [14:57] Ahmad Hosho: UN resolution to make everyone connected online by 2010, if i still remember that correctly.
    [14:57] Bibi Book: Anthony: in RL you just stand up and go to it and all see, where you go
    [14:57] Chrisy Darwin: well, we'd be back with media: SL is an online sex game. and commercial at that
    [14:58] Chrisy Darwin: lol
    [14:58] Ahmad Hosho: christy: lol
    [14:58] Sidda Leigh: lol chrisy
    [14:58] You: right Crisy and that's not why I'm here... to begin with or to continue with
    [14:58] Messalina Messerchmitt: I dont think it started out like that did it?
    [14:58] Antony Chihuly: problem is messalina is people belive that thye need to discuss everything with people but why because they let other people control their lives
    [14:58] Barney Boomslang: well, I've heard people talk aobut taking a "bio-break" quite a few times, so I guess they _do_ announce it ;)
    [14:58] Bibi Book: Chrisy: too much of it is like that
    [14:58] Chrisy Darwin: i know mollie:-) me neither....
    [14:58] Antony Chihuly: you los tme there bibi
    [14:59] Bibi Book: and if they find child porn here and LL doe snot much about it, they have the press as result
    [14:59] florenze Kerensky: i do coffee exchanges :)
    [14:59] Messalina Messerchmitt: lol
    [14:59] Bibi Book: Antony: that about RL and going to toilet
    [14:59] You: Coffee xechanges Flo?
    [14:59] Antony Chihuly: yeah but bib ther ewill be people into child porn in here already
    [14:59] florenze Kerensky: coffee in , coffee out
    [14:59] florenze Kerensky chuckles
    [14:59] You: oh :)
    [14:59] Antony Chihuly: because it is a global problem
    [15:00] Ahmad Hosho: glad the coffee is not a global problem too :)
    [15:00] florenze Kerensky: lol
    [15:00] Chev Carver: yea theres child smuggling going on everywhere
    [15:00] Chev Carver: watchem closely
    [15:00] Ahmad Hosho tell a note. the event is done. but the meeting can continue
    [15:00] Chrisy Darwin: am i correct, that the "game" and "sex" aspects make you hide your SL self in RL, Mollie? t is for me...
    [15:00] Antony Chihuly: yeah especially quality arabian stuff ahmad lol
    [15:00] Bibi Book: Ahmad:: it is, coffee is way too cheap
    [15:00] You: yes
    [15:00] Buffy Munro: cheap!
    [15:01] Antony Chihuly: eh did i hear that right bibi lol
    [15:01] Ahmad Hosho: antony: the arabic coffe is not strong like the egyptian one :)
    [15:01] Ahmad Hosho: coffee*
    [15:01] Antony Chihuly: yeah i dont like it too strong
    [15:01] You: but I don't consider SL to be a game, a topic from a previous meeting
    [15:01] Antony Chihuly: i know i had egyptian coffe
    [15:01] Chrisy Darwin: and i also think the name SL was wrong. it makes it sould like a game. Not a 3D internet (what is more what it is)
    [15:01] Antony Chihuly: my brother in law is egyptian
    [15:01] Bibi Book: Mollie: it is a bit of all: game, communication platform...
    [15:01] Chev Carver: its not a game its 3D mesenger lol
    [15:02] Buffy Munro: what do you consider sl to be if not a game?
    [15:02] You: :) hey Chev
    [15:02] Ahmad Hosho: Anthony: i see :)
    [15:02] Sidda Leigh: rofl chev yes
    [15:02] Messalina Messerchmitt: a game has winners and losers
    [15:02] You: for me it's a way to meet people
    [15:02] florenze Kerensky: it is what you see it as. no way you can label it for anyone but yourself
    [15:02] You: and to get to know them
    [15:02] Chev Carver: its MSN Messenger with little AVIs
    [15:02] Ahmad Hosho: 3d msn :)
    [15:02] Bibi Book: no, not all games have winners and loosers
    [15:02] Chrisy Darwin: bibi. its a platform. you can ply on it. like a lawn. you can play ball on it. you dont have to, but you can...
    [15:02] You: I have very inimate conversations in here
    [15:02] Antony Chihuly: i agree with you there florenze
    [15:02] You: intimate
    [15:02] Barney Boomslang: It's lego with IRC thrown in :)
    [15:03] Chev Carver: lol
    [15:03] Antony Chihuly: lol barney
    [15:03] Chrisy Darwin: lol
    [15:03] You: and I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about personal things
    [15:03] Antony Chihuly: like the lego deathstar on you tube lol
    [15:03] Ahmad Hosho: it looks like it started like a game, and gradually it changed to be more a visual communcation platform.
    [15:03] Bibi Book: but bad IRC
    [15:03] Bibi Book: IRC is working better
    [15:03] Barney Boomslang: bibi: yeah, but building on IRC sucks :P
    [15:03] You: sorry? what's IRC?
    [15:03] florenze Kerensky: started more as a creative outlet... what it is not, who knows :)
    [15:03] Bibi Book: Internet Relay Chat
    [15:03] You: ok
    [15:04] Ahmad Hosho: yes irc is an old chat tool. :)
    [15:04] Bibi Book: rather old already
    [15:04] Chrisy Darwin: Ahmad. If you look what inspired Linden, then it was never a game. Did you read the book snow crash"? That was the concept
    [15:04] Antony Chihuly: theres a few different similar sl types molls
    [15:04] Barney Boomslang: ahmad: yes, the very first stuff from LL - called Lindenworld back then - was more game-like. they terraformed with grenades and buildings could be destroyed by others.
    [15:04] Sidda Leigh: and now ladies and gentlemen i must take my sorry i was late due to RL and did not contribute much to the discussion...enjoy! and see you next time....I have a student waiting for editing a paper in SL in my little group....see u all soon!
    [15:04] Antony Chihuly: laters sid
    [15:04] You: bye Sidda
    [15:04] florenze Kerensky: bye sidda :) tc
    [15:04] Chrisy Darwin: cu sidda
    [15:04] Barney Boomslang: cu sidda
    [15:04] Messalina Messerchmitt: Bye Sidda
    [15:04] Buffy Munro: see ya
    [15:04] Sidda Leigh: bey bye
    [15:04] Bibi Book: Snow Crash? I may search that
    [15:04] Chev Carver: later
    [15:04] Ahmad Hosho: chrisy: no but i read some interveiw with him, and i know he said he wanted everyone to creat his own world. and yes i dont play computer games, so i made sure it is not a game before i connect here :)
    [15:05] Barney Boomslang: bibi: neal stephenson "Snowcrash" - good book about virtual worlds as a back-story
    [15:05] Ahmad Hosho: i only play chess*
    [15:05] Antony Chihuly: yeah but you could look at it as a game
    [15:05] Barney Boomslang: I personally prefer "Otherland" by Tad Williams as the mental model for SL, though
    [15:05] Antony Chihuly: a game is a thing you do to relax init
    [15:05] Chrisy Darwin: its scifi Bibi. And the name of the platform they use is Metaverse (i prefer that name to SL)
    [15:05] Antony Chihuly: and do we not come on here to relax
    [15:05] You: game implies winners and losers
    [15:05] Barney Boomslang: flo: next song was the one I sent you the IM about - just moved it up again :)
    [15:05] You: to me anyway
    [15:05] Antony Chihuly: yeah i am always on a winnner
    [15:05] Antony Chihuly: lol
    [15:06] Ahmad Hosho: antony: i understand that imagination can be more fun than a game. :) i can creat or live any life i want here. it is like u write a story and illustrate it.
    [15:06] Bibi Book: Mollie: no games do not always imply winners and loosers
    [15:06] Chrisy Darwin: Barney, irespectiev of what you prefer, Linden actually says it is based on "snow crash"
    [15:06] Messalina Messerchmitt: And you never know what will happen when you log on
    [15:06] Chev Carver: its a hybrid program irc, building program with custom avitars
    [15:06] Ahmad Hosho: i c
    [15:06] Barney Boomslang: chrisy: actually they said it is not LOL - ask three lindens, get 5 answers that conflict with each other and themselves ;)
    [15:07] Chrisy Darwin: LOL
    [15:07] Chrisy Darwin: typical Linden....
    [15:07] You: back to the original topic of how you were surprised with SL... and I am surprised by the sense of playfulness in here...
    [15:07] Antony Chihuly: thing is rightly or wrongly i come on here cos i enoy it and have frineds on here but and a big but i dont tak eit too seriously if i ever got pissed off with it i wuold leave and that would be the end of it cos thats not the reason i come on here
    [15:07] Messalina Messerchmitt: some people take far too seriously
    [15:07] Messalina Messerchmitt: take it*
    [15:07] You: yes Messalina
    [15:07] Antony Chihuly: though let me tell you guys a little thing thathappened to me recently
    [15:08] Ahmad Hosho: SL allowed me to learn more about edgar degas as an example, i tried to paint his paintings with digital tools in sl. :) and i role played sometime his name.. made me read more etc. it is a fun to do, and it help my art part in same time. :)
    [15:08] Bibi Book: I have to admit, I have been miost surprised by how stupid and paranoid soem people are
    [15:08] Antony Chihuly: i came on here recently and got chatting to some girl randomly in a club i go to
    [15:08] Chev Carver: im not Bibi
    [15:08] You: yes Bibi... lately I have been seeing a lot of catfights where I hang out
    [15:08] Antony Chihuly: after a while we realise that we used to be part of a big group of poeple who used to go clubbing together in rl over 10 years ago
    [15:08] You: women
    [15:09] Antony Chihuly: and i hadnt seen of heard of any of them since then neither
    [15:09] Antony Chihuly: now that is bizzare lol
    [15:09] Chrisy Darwin: stupid or paranoid, Chev ? grin / duck
    [15:09] Antony Chihuly: that surprised me i tell ya lol
    [15:09] Messalina Messerchmitt: amazing coincidence
    [15:09] Chev Carver: lol
    [15:09] You: so you still travel in the same circles although you don't see each other
    [15:10] Antony Chihuly: possibly mollie yeah
    [15:10] Trent Java Delicious Coffee: coffee brewed!
    [15:10] Antony Chihuly: although i never met anyone else lol
    [15:10] You: well today I wasted two hours at a pool party in SL...
    [15:10] Antony Chihuly: but i bet there is others on here that i know lol
    [15:11] Messalina Messerchmitt: you never know who you are talking to sometimes!
    [15:11] Antony Chihuly: i bet there are some famous peope in here too
    [15:11] Barney Boomslang: sure. herbie hancock is.
    [15:11] You: oh how did you know, now my secret's out
    [15:11] Chrisy Darwin: it would be a very good place to "go out" for them Anthony
    [15:11] Antony Chihuly: espeically th eones who dont get out too much cos of poularity and stuff its an easy escape
    [15:11] Messalina Messerchmitt: hahha
    [15:12] florenze Kerensky: herbie hancock in sl?
    [15:12] Barney Boomslang: yep
    [15:12] Antony Chihuly: yeha i am really val doonican
    [15:12] Ahmad Hosho: well, i remember at sometime when i was a new user. i saw something i wanted to paint. and i asked my self: why may i paint from some pixels, i always used to paint life. But in the end i said: who has placed every avatar in his place? isn't people behind the avatars. and who dress them that way, isn't every one dressed him/herself the way they are. and i started to paint.
    [15:12] Barney Boomslang: they had a mixed-reality event with him a while ago- and when the studio doing the stuff had him over, he just p lugged his notebook in, logged in and said "ok, show me what you built" :)
    [15:12] You: very cool Ahmad
    [15:12] Chev Carver: i really doubt that celebs come on here
    [15:12] Barney Boomslang: the studio was lucky that they _did_ indeed have all built allready, otherwise they might havbe had a problem ;)
    [15:12] Ahmad Hosho: if u like i can show u my first painting in sl.
    [15:13] Antony Chihuly: thats true ahamd i didnt realise until someone told me but when i showed the a pic they said it was funny as i looked like my avi lol
    [15:13] Bibi Book: Ahmad: that is the important: tere are people behind all of us
    [15:13] You: sure
    [15:13] florenze Kerensky: chev, you a celeb trying to hide fact that celebs do come on here? :)
    [15:13] Antony Chihuly: lees the lagre tats like lol
    [15:13] Chev Carver: i really doubt a chunck of celebs know how to use a computer even
    [15:13] You: well that's like Nath's video
    [15:13] Bibi Book: and even if people role play that is part of them
    [15:13] Bibi Book: or if they grief
    [15:13] You: I sent it to a friend... his response was "are there people behind those cartoons?"
    [15:14] Chrisy Darwin: na, Chev = Prince Harry in RL....
    [15:14] florenze Kerensky: back in the day at a few events in sl with rl celebs, a couple admitted to having sl avatars in here
    [15:14] Chev Carver: there too busy in rehab or doing cocain, the majority are shallow people, 2 faced for the camera
    [15:14] Antony Chihuly: didnt duran duran do a concert in here
    [15:14] Ahmad Hosho: sorry was building the painting presentation.
    [15:14] Ahmad Hosho: back.
    [15:14] Bibi Book: Antony: as far as I know, it only was streamed
    [15:14] Barney Boomslang: antony: nope, tehy talked about doing one, but never really did.
    [15:15] Antony Chihuly: ah right
    [15:15] Bibi Book: Oh, did not know, it did not happen
    [15:15] Barney Boomslang: and well, sorry, but duran duran - they are not celebs any more ;)
    [15:15] Chev Carver: haha
    [15:15] Bibi Book: and U2 never has been here, too
    [15:16] Antony Chihuly: yeah but they are still good lol
    [15:16] Chev Carver: who? lol
    [15:16] Bibi Book: those here are not U2 and they use recordings
    [15:16] Ahmad Hosho: U2: sure they never have been here.
    [15:16] Antony Chihuly: i saw u2 tribute band lastmonth at an 80's weekender they where awesome
    [15:16] Barney Boomslang: bono won't find the time between jetting all over the world to show his stupid glasses in camera for logging into sl ;)
    [15:16] Messalina Messerchmitt: lol
    [15:16] Barney Boomslang: antony: well, they run recordings - that's easy to do "awesome", if you just run recordings of the real U2
    [15:16] Barney Boomslang: they are a cheat. and a bad one at that.
    [15:17] Ahmad Hosho: barney: that in case if he even had time to hear about secondlife.
    [15:17] Barney Boomslang: just pixel-show, they don't even do anything else themselves it seems
    [15:17] Antony Chihuly: no this was in rl barney
    [15:17] Barney Boomslang: ah, ok
    [15:17] Barney Boomslang: RL bands at least sometimes have to play themselves ;)
    [15:17] Antony Chihuly: at butlins in skegness lol
    [15:17] Buffy Munro: lmao
    [15:17] Messalina Messerchmitt: hahha
    [15:17] Bibi Book: Antony: ah, okay
    [15:18] Bibi Book: sounded like you referred to SL show
    [15:18] Antony Chihuly: its was good got my pic took with the real buster blood vessel aswell lol
    [15:18] Antony Chihuly: ah sorry
    [15:18] Bibi Book: Barney: rigth, some do not play live in ive events in RL, too
    [15:19] You: oh is that your painting Ahmad?
    [15:19] Antony Chihuly: yeah right enough
    [15:19] Ahmad Hosho: yes
    [15:19] Barney Boomslang: bibi: it's harder to do with a full band, though, than with a singer. the singer should just make sure they have the mic switched off to not sound over the playback ;)
    [15:19] Ahmad Hosho: mollie: yes, iti s my painting.
    [15:19] You: it's lovely Ahmad
    [15:19] Bibi Book: which? The witch?
    [15:19] Ahmad Hosho: ty mollie
    [15:19] Ahmad Hosho: bibi no
    [15:20] Bibi Book: ah, that one
    [15:20] Bibi Book: I remembver it
    [15:20] Ahmad Hosho: she means this one
    [15:20] Ahmad Hosho: my first painting in sl.
    [15:20] Barney Boomslang: ahmad: no bopping guests over the head with paintings ;)
    [15:20] Ahmad Hosho: sorry messa
    [15:20] Messalina Messerchmitt: haha
    [15:21] Ahmad Hosho: well edgar degas has forced his self in the style.
    [15:21] Messalina Messerchmitt: lovely. Impressionistic
    [15:21] Messalina Messerchmitt: like Degas
    [15:21] Ahmad Hosho: yes never thought to do it, but i found it coming by itself.
    [15:21] You: ok I need to run along for a bit
    [15:21] Ahmad Hosho: ok mollie
    [15:21] You: I'll see you at the 6 p.m. meeting Ahmad
    [15:21] Messalina Messerchmitt: Bye Mollie
    [15:21] Ahmad Hosho: ok mollie :) see u
    [15:22] Ahmad Hosho: the lady i painted: i thought she will give me 2 lindens or something as i was a new user
    [15:22] Antony Chihuly: laters molli
    [15:22] Ahmad Hosho: she told me: nice.

Second meeting from 6Pm-7pm ( Recorded by Mollie Servei )
  • [18:02]  Ahmad Hosho: we can spend it togather lol
    [18:02] You: lol
    [18:02] Ahmad Hosho: well the less the better any way
    [18:03] Ahmad Hosho: buffy is coming
    [18:03] MystiTool HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Buffy Munro (2m)
    [18:03] Buffy Munro: ooops sorry
    [18:03] You: np
    [18:03] Ahmad Hosho: dont worry it may be my mistake :)
    [18:03] Buffy Munro: yes it was
    [18:03] Ahmad Hosho: i said may be
    [18:03] Buffy Munro: and i said it was
    [18:03] Ahmad Hosho place his gun loaded
    [18:04] Ahmad Hosho: on the table
    [18:04] Ahmad Hosho: any one?
    [18:04] Buffy Munro: and i grab it and bend the barrels
    [18:04] Ahmad Hosho: i said it was
    [18:04] Buffy Munro: haha
    [18:04] Ahmad Hosho: ok have a seat please :)
    [18:05] Ahmad Hosho: what was the topic again
    [18:05] You: lol
    [18:05] You: maybe two times aren't really needed
    [18:05] You: or
    [18:05] Ahmad Hosho: we may try to talk and see if it works :)
    [18:05] You: maybe we need to have one on the weekend
    [18:06] Ahmad Hosho lights his cigar
    [18:06] Buffy Munro coughs
    [18:07] Ahmad Hosho: i am trying to tp someone
    [18:07] Ahmad Hosho: if doesnt come, we can start to try to talk :)
    [18:07] You: I'm IMing people too
    [18:07] Buffy Munro: not on my head please
    [18:07] Ahmad Hosho: sure buffy :)
    [18:07] Buffy Munro: thanks
    [18:07] MystiTool HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Moyra Ares (2m)
    [18:08] Ahmad Hosho: hello Moyra :)
    [18:08] Moyra Ares: ~waves~
    [18:08] Buffy Munro: hi Moyra
    [18:08] Ahmad Hosho: moyra meet buffy, mollie
    [18:08] You: welcome
    [18:08] Ahmad Hosho: we dont have a lot of people tonight.
    [18:08] Moyra Ares: hi, sorry i have a slow i apologize in advance when i disappear or react slow
    [18:09] You: np Moyra
    [18:09] Ahmad Hosho: k, np.
    [18:09] You: happy to have you
    [18:09] Ahmad Hosho: please have a seat
    [18:09] Buffy Munro: i am just slow
    [18:09] Buffy Munro: so i apologise now
    [18:09] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:09] Ahmad Hosho: well our topic is: how did u surprise ur self in SL.
    [18:10] Ahmad Hosho: and i am glad there are few people in this chapter
    [18:10] Ahmad Hosho: so we can discuss it more lol
    [18:10] Moyra Ares: :) i was suprised by the depth of some roleplaying stories...realy enjoyable sometimes :)
    [18:11] Ahmad Hosho: oh like 1001?
    [18:11] Moyra Ares: its like watching soap operas sometimes :)
    [18:11] You: as I was mentioning it earlier, I have been enjoying intimitate conversations... meaning personal and in depth
    [18:11] Moyra Ares: i dont know the roleplay in 1001...didnt had much chance to play there
    [18:11] Ahmad Hosho: they closed it
    [18:11] Ahmad Hosho: but talking with harla and some of them
    [18:12] Ahmad Hosho: made me feel like the rp is really deep
    [18:12] Moyra Ares: why?
    [18:12] Ahmad Hosho: hmmmm
    [18:12] Ahmad Hosho: i think when u react as a personality, for long time. u start to get part of it as a reality
    [18:12] Ahmad Hosho: not reality as the word mean,s but at least ur feelings to it.
    [18:13] You: hmmmm more ?
    [18:13] Moyra Ares: yes i agree
    [18:13] Moyra Ares: why did they close 1001?
    [18:13] Ahmad Hosho: the builders want to make it a business and harla doesnt want that
    [18:13] Ahmad Hosho: so she has taken her buildings in her inventory
    [18:13] Moyra Ares: explain
    [18:14] Ahmad Hosho: may be this surprised the builder about himself :)
    [18:14] Ahmad Hosho: he built it for fun as i understand
    [18:14] Ahmad Hosho: and then he met someone or some lady who started to tell him if he work on making games, she can bring RL companies to pay him in sl.
    [18:15] Ahmad Hosho: and harla has transofoemed the owenrship of the sim for them as they pay the rent.
    [18:15] Ahmad Hosho: harla didnt like the business idea, so she has taken the buildings in her inventory
    [18:16] Moyra Ares: i see
    [18:16] Ahmad Hosho: well
    [18:16] Ahmad Hosho: i surprised my self in sl that i am not a business man :)
    [18:17] Ahmad Hosho: buffy
    [18:17] Buffy Munro: yes
    [18:17] Ahmad Hosho: how did u surprise ur self in sl :)
    [18:17] You: lol Ahmad... thought I'd jump right into building
    [18:17] Buffy Munro: erm
    [18:17] You: didn't expect the social aspect to be so prominent
    [18:17] Ahmad Hosho: did sl has any surprise for u?
    [18:18] Buffy Munro: nope, sl has no surprises for me, i know exactly what i want from sl and i get what i want
    [18:18] Ahmad Hosho: hello gracie.
    [18:18] Gracie Price: *waves*
    [18:18] Moyra Ares: hi gracie
    [18:18] Ahmad Hosho: living in a virtual world may help one learn something about himself, buffy.
    [18:18] Ahmad Hosho: dont u agree? :)
    [18:18] Buffy Munro: actually there is one thing
    [18:19] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:19] Buffy Munro: and that is how attached to people i can become without really knowing them
    [18:19] Ahmad Hosho: yes good point
    [18:19] Buffy Munro: but actually i am like that in rl too
    [18:19] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:20] Moyra Ares: you know the people in SL
    [18:20] Moyra Ares: isnt that enough?
    [18:20] Ahmad Hosho: to have some friends who u know and have friendship feelings to them, without knowing their RL names.
    [18:20] Buffy Munro: yes it is weird really
    [18:20] Ahmad Hosho: well moyra, sl, or rl. it is the same person.. just the inofmration are changed.
    [18:21] Ahmad Hosho: may be the person in sl is more real than him in rl.
    [18:21] Buffy Munro: yes that is true
    [18:21] Buffy Munro: The Munro is much more confident than i am
    [18:21] Gracie Price: I apologize...was helping a friend :-)
    [18:21] Ahmad Hosho: np gracie
    [18:21] Nath Jonesford is Online
    [18:21] Ahmad Hosho: let me say sl gives a lot of freedom
    [18:21] Ahmad Hosho: which makes u live in a different aspect of life
    [18:22] Tycho Spyker: Hey guys, how goes it?
    [18:22] Buffy Munro: maybe it is the way i really want to be
    [18:22] You: welcome Tycho
    [18:22] Ahmad Hosho: yes
    [18:22] Ahmad Hosho: u are right
    [18:22] Gracie Price smiles...I'm more like Gracie now...than I was when I first started SL...
    [18:23] Ahmad Hosho: so according to that, when u have ur freedom, u have a chance to do a life u may be were not able to do in rl.
    [18:23] Ahmad Hosho: everything here is possible by clicks.
    [18:23] Buffy Munro: totally, i would never do the things in rl that the munro gets up to
    [18:23] Gracie Price: so has that freedom challenged you Ahmad?
    [18:23] Ahmad Hosho: Gracie yes
    [18:24] Gracie Price: how so?
    [18:24] Ahmad Hosho: good question gracie
    [18:24] Ahmad Hosho: well
    [18:24] Ahmad Hosho: first of all
    [18:24] Ahmad Hosho: i got finally the chance to do other type of designs than graphics, web
    [18:24] Ahmad Hosho: i got the chance to do fashion, architect, and industrial designs too.
    [18:25] Ahmad Hosho: if i kept doing them in rl inside my room, i will never do them.. but here i do them and i get feedback and communciate
    [18:25] Gracie Price: have you been challenged by the freedom ethically or morally?
    [18:25] Ahmad Hosho: hey gracie, design is important to me more lol
    [18:25] Ahmad Hosho: imagine u can make anything u didnt able to make in rl.
    [18:25] Gracie Price: laughs i know
    [18:25] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:25] Ahmad Hosho: i can put my suit in market with girogio armani!
    [18:26] Ahmad Hosho: yes giorgio armani has a store in sl. and i sell my suit more expensive than him.
    [18:26] Gracie Price looks at your suit, you think so???? hehe
    [18:26] Buffy Munro: haha
    [18:26] Gracie Price: I'm teasing honey ;_0
    [18:26] Ahmad Hosho: np
    [18:26] Ahmad Hosho: armani is the godfather of modern suit
    [18:26] Ahmad Hosho: no way to break him :)
    [18:26] Tycho Spyker: but what else does this freedom entail? a lot of times it seems to result in a lack of direction or purpose
    [18:26] Ahmad Hosho: i mean if he is a him even
    [18:26] Moyra Ares: ahmad...i think you did a great job..its worth what ever you charge
    [18:27] Ahmad Hosho: thank u moyra
    [18:27] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:27] Ahmad Hosho: tycho u have a point
    [18:27] Ahmad Hosho: tycho: i discovered at 3rd month in sl i have to have a specific plan for my life here.
    [18:27] Tycho Spyker: i agree
    [18:28] Tycho Spyker: i think in a way the unstructured environment of SL lends itself to a kind of laziness we can't get away with in RL
    [18:28] Ahmad Hosho: and i decided to not repeat my life, i decided to do what i wanted to do in my rl and didnt has the chance to do it. / beside RP some of my movies heros like spiderman.
    [18:28] Tycho Spyker: LOL
    [18:28] Gracie Price: you mean as far as it not being a typical "game" with quests and such?
    [18:28] Ahmad Hosho: well according to what i say, i need time to plan and draw in rl, and come to apply in sl.
    [18:29] Ahmad Hosho: gracie: yes
    [18:29] Ahmad Hosho: I RP spiderman for sometime, and designed his weapons with darling brody
    [18:29] Ahmad Hosho: and ladies were meeting me in stores and says oh spiderman.
    [18:29] Ahmad Hosho: and mothers kept taking pictures with me. lol
    [18:29] Gracie Price: lol
    [18:30] Ahmad Hosho: and i had some advantures with some mafias, and we were going to publish comics too.
    [18:30] Ahmad Hosho: some SL news wrote about me stopping a griefing at some sim
    [18:30] Tycho Spyker: mafias?
    [18:30] Tycho Spyker: in SL or RL?
    [18:30] Ahmad Hosho: tycho: yes there are sl mafia
    [18:30] Gracie Price wants to be a mafia princess
    [18:30] Ahmad Hosho: tycho: some of them are just RP, and some are griefing
    [18:30] Tycho Spyker: i'm sure there are...
    [18:31] Tycho Spyker: some of them control business interests as well
    [18:31] Tycho Spyker: although there is the economic side here as well; if you are able to create something you can sell it
    [18:31] Moyra Ares: i came here to earn money...and have fun...thats my goal
    [18:31] Tycho Spyker: but there is a lot of competition
    [18:31] Ahmad Hosho: Tycho: yes
    [18:31] Ahmad Hosho: moyra and buffy are selling products in sl too
    [18:31] Ahmad Hosho: how is the selling going moyra and buffy now adays?
    [18:31] Buffy Munro: i want to be the greatest surfer on sl too lol
    [18:31] Gracie Price: Ahmad, are you accomplishing both?
    [18:32] Ahmad Hosho: just asking as they are in market
    [18:32] Ahmad Hosho: i closed my shop from 4 months
    [18:32] Ahmad Hosho: so i dont know enuf news :)
    [18:32] Ahmad Hosho: enough*
    [18:32] Ahmad Hosho: but i heared the market is going down lately
    [18:33] Buffy Munro: the sale of custom surfboards is unbelievable
    [18:33] Ahmad Hosho: in the end of the day: what are we buying in SL? we buy digital files.
    [18:33] Tycho Spyker: do you think there is a saturation point, since most goods are "durable" in SL?
    [18:33] Buffy Munro: ther sufring community is huge
    [18:33] Buffy Munro: the*
    [18:33] Ahmad Hosho: yes buffy this is the point.
    [18:33] Ahmad Hosho: we sell iconogoraphies units to communciate with them.
    [18:33] Tycho Spyker: i.e., even what would not be a durable good in RL can last as long as your inventory doesn't get deleted...
    [18:33] Buffy Munro: the team that i ride for has 300 members alone
    [18:33] Ahmad Hosho: the look and feel of the virtual surf can make u communciate in specific life style.
    [18:34] Moyra Ares: a lot of competition...maybe...but i dont realy care about competition..because what i do is what i do...and its allways unique
    [18:34] Gracie Price smiles...but someone is always going to make something better
    [18:34] Gracie Price: so even i have a surfboard...i want the newest and best one
    [18:34] Tycho Spyker: that's a good thing - if you believe in what you're doing, it doesn't matter if other people are competing
    [18:34] Ahmad Hosho: moyra yes but in the end of the day, what we all sell here: visuals
    [18:34] Tycho Spyker: as long as you have something to differentiate yourself
    [18:35] Ahmad Hosho moves the dust from his tie
    [18:35] Ahmad Hosho: you are right tycho
    [18:35] Buffy Munro: hehe you can make it the best because you can have whatever design you want on it
    [18:35] Ahmad Hosho: u mean ur surf board, buffy?
    [18:35] Moyra Ares: we sell content...and yes for sure its this a bad thing?
    [18:35] Ahmad Hosho: sometimes art gives the user what he never excepected.
    [18:35] Ahmad Hosho: this applies to RL market too.
    [18:36] Ahmad Hosho: a client can come and say i want that and this for my website, but if u show him ur ideas he can just say wow, it is better than what i thought.
    [18:36] Ahmad Hosho: both are great i guess :)
    [18:36] Ahmad Hosho: but the point what i try to ask u about is: isn't interesting the whole economy is trading in digital files.
    [18:36] Tycho Spyker: that's a general rule in doing a creative type of business - to understand what your client wants
    [18:36] Ahmad Hosho: didnt that surprise u?
    [18:37] Ahmad Hosho: tycho: it is right too.
    [18:37] Ahmad Hosho: is my question clear? cause this really surprised me in sl
    [18:37] Moyra Ares: people sell audio too, like songs ect ect
    [18:38] Buffy Munro: no not clear to mee
    [18:38] Buffy Munro: me*
    [18:38] Tycho Spyker: i don't think that's a big departure from where we are in RL
    [18:38] Tycho Spyker: we sell software, services, etc.
    [18:38] Gracie Price: lol...i guess i wasn't surprised by it or I don't get the question
    [18:38] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:38] Ahmad Hosho: Buffy: some people makes RL income in SL. like 2000 USD per month - i have a friend making this amount - isn't interesting that all s/he doing is making virtual buildings?
    [18:39] Buffy Munro: yes
    [18:39] Ahmad Hosho: in the end of the day the building here is just some information written in a specific way at some server.
    [18:39] Tycho Spyker: that may seem surprising at first thought
    [18:39] Ahmad Hosho: beside the lady who made 1 million english pound i guess.
    [18:39] Gracie Price: who is your friend Ahmad?
    [18:39] Tycho Spyker: but it's analogous to designing a website or something
    [18:39] Gracie Price: can you divulge that information?
    [18:40] Ahmad Hosho: Gracie: can't tell. as s/he told me that as a type of secret.
    [18:40] Gracie Price: i see :-)
    [18:40] Tycho Spyker: still, it's about constructing a presence
    [18:40] Tycho Spyker: the same way as a brick and mortar business
    [18:40] Ahmad Hosho: tycho: yes same problem. but in sites we give a back up CD, and documents and contracts.. things are more stable.
    [18:40] Tycho Spyker: an image and a location
    [18:41] Tycho Spyker: true
    [18:41] Tycho Spyker: and that's part of the issue here with the economy
    [18:41] Ahmad Hosho: we also tend to back up websites too in case someone hacked them.
    [18:41] Gracie Price: but who expects stability in a land where people fly?
    [18:41] Tycho Spyker: is it all depends on people's trust in LL
    [18:41] Tycho Spyker: LOL
    [18:41] Ahmad Hosho: the thing which surprised me is
    [18:41] Gracie Price: if they do...they are foolish
    [18:41] Ahmad Hosho: if i really think the online future is for virtual worlds, will i trust an income from here?
    [18:42] Ahmad Hosho: i still feel confused about this question.
    [18:42] Tycho Spyker: i wouldn't, honestly, not for the long term
    [18:42] Tycho Spyker: but there will be other virtual worlds
    [18:42] Tycho Spyker: this is just the start of something much bigger
    [18:42] Gracie Price: yes...but virtual worlds are expanding...and there are others...but not to the same degree as SL
    [18:42] Gracie Price: SL is unique because the content is user created...
    [18:43] Tycho Spyker: as soon as there is an open platform, where i can host an island on my own server, back up my data, etc.
    [18:43] Tycho Spyker: then there will be a sense of stability
    [18:43] Gracie Price: smiles...good point Tycho
    [18:43] Tycho Spyker: and trust in the infrastructure
    [18:43] Ahmad Hosho: mollie what is ur opinion about that?
    [18:43] Moyra Ares: websites are vortual constructions too...and there is a whole industry with thousands of people earning their RL money with it
    [18:43] Gracie Price: why trust LL? they really don't give us a reason to trust them
    [18:43] Tycho Spyker: yes, exactly
    [18:44] Tycho Spyker: and that's the difference between this and the web
    [18:44] Ahmad Hosho: i hope we are not going to LL like how we went from dos to windows
    [18:44] Tycho Spyker: can you imagine the web controlled by one company?
    [18:44] Gracie Price: lol...D I S A S T E R
    [18:44] Mlita Pennell: haallllooooo!!!
    [18:44] Tycho Spyker: all transactions beholden to a single locked-down infrastructure
    [18:45] Tycho Spyker: Hi Mlita
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: hi tycho
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: :)
    [18:45] Gracie Price: HI Mlita
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: hi gracie
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: hi ahmad bizz
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: hi buffy & mollie & moyra
    [18:45] Ahmad Hosho: hello milta how r u
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: ok it's 9am here .. sorry late hihi
    [18:45] Buffy Munro: hi :)
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: go ahead with discussions
    [18:45] Mlita Pennell: pls
    [18:46] Ahmad Hosho: nice to see u milta
    [18:46] Tycho Spyker: sorry, i was just ranting about the singular nature of SL
    [18:46] Mlita Pennell: ty ahmad
    [18:46] Ahmad Hosho: we speak about how SL has surprised u ?
    [18:46] Mlita Pennell: ok tycho
    [18:46] Ahmad Hosho: np
    [18:46] Tycho Spyker: so that was one of the things that did surprise me
    [18:47] Mlita Pennell: hmm.. not much about the human interaction or the technology aspect of SL
    [18:47] Tycho Spyker: is that there is no outside connectivity, no distributed infrastructure
    [18:47] Mlita Pennell: ahmad
    [18:47] Ahmad Hosho: yes milta
    [18:47] Mlita Pennell: but mainly my own personal reaction to SL ahmad
    [18:47] Ahmad Hosho: i surpsised u milta?
    [18:47] Ahmad Hosho: me??
    [18:47] Ahmad Hosho: surprised*
    [18:47] Mlita Pennell: lol ahmad yes numero uno lol
    [18:47] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:48] Mlita Pennell: not hahah
    [18:48] Ahmad Hosho: numero uno even?
    [18:48] Buffy Munro: haha
    [18:48] Ahmad Hosho: what is numero uno btw
    [18:48] Gracie Price: hehe...he has a tendancy to do that
    [18:48] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:48] Mlita Pennell: lol Numero Uno = No. 1
    [18:48] Ahmad Hosho: i taught milta to smoke i guess
    [18:48] Gracie Price: lmao
    [18:48] Mlita Pennell: lolol yes ahmad.. positive influence in SL lol
    [18:48] Ahmad Hosho: here u are what surprised me too
    [18:49] Ahmad Hosho: get ready
    [18:49] Mlita Pennell: lol ahmad
    [18:49] Ahmad Hosho: i have been surprised at 3rd day
    [18:49] Ahmad Hosho: that people are having jobs and taking this world so seriouse
    [18:49] Ahmad Hosho: so i found my self i didnt take anything seriouse in my life lol
    [18:49] Ahmad Hosho: well, that made me start to work seriosue here
    [18:50] Ahmad Hosho: but later i thought: why to work seriosue in sl, while u can work seriosue in RL too
    [18:50] Moyra Ares: lol...right...take something serious, even a game, and you can make something out of it
    [18:50] Ahmad Hosho: i went back to RL and stopped SL for a while, and i really risen up my clients in these days.
    [18:50] Mlita Pennell: too true Moyra
    [18:50] Mlita Pennell: wb Mollie
    [18:50] Ahmad Hosho: i came back to SL cause i have learn that in sl
    [18:50] Ahmad Hosho: it seems connecting with people made me learn something from them
    [18:51] You: thanks!
    [18:51] Mlita Pennell: :))
    [18:51] Tycho Spyker: nice -then it has enriched you life
    [18:51] Ahmad Hosho: instead of living as a pharaoh
    [18:51] Tycho Spyker: *your
    [18:51] Mlita Pennell: lol ahmad
    [18:51] Ahmad Hosho: yes mr.Spyker
    [18:51] Ahmad Hosho: i always try to learn from others
    [18:51] Mlita Pennell: well for me Sl is no different than in RL except that it is a represntation of RL in a microworld
    [18:51] Ahmad Hosho: and here is a big box of others and great people ( i try to keep my self with good people as possible )
    [18:51] Gracie Price: I would definitely say I was surprised when I came here that people got married and had babies!
    [18:52] Mlita Pennell: so i am not surprised by what u said ..
    [18:52] Ahmad Hosho: moyra surprised me too
    [18:52] Mlita Pennell: lol Gracie..
    [18:52] Tycho Spyker: Moyra: me too
    [18:52] Mlita Pennell: lol Gracie
    [18:52] Tycho Spyker: i still find that hard to comprehend
    [18:52] Gracie Price: the marriage or the babies?
    [18:52] Tycho Spyker: or was that Gracie?
    [18:52] Tycho Spyker: sorry
    [18:52] Tycho Spyker: both
    [18:53] Mlita Pennell: as in Rl u have differnt preferences and likes/ dislikes... so same in SL
    [18:53] Ahmad Hosho: marriage and all didnt surprise me
    [18:53] Ahmad Hosho: may be cause i entered a stable sl family from first lol ( all married in sl and later they married the same in RL )
    [18:53] Ahmad Hosho: my sl sister has married her sl husband in rl.
    [18:54] Ahmad Hosho: same for my sl brother chief xi
    [18:54] Mlita Pennell: what ppl forget sometimes.. SL is very much like RL in that it's all human emotions and interactions .. so evrythign we do in RL translates to SL ... except it's faster here in SL i find.
    [18:54] Moyra Ares: im not suprised about this marriage thing
    [18:54] Gracie Price: the marriage thing...for me...I connected to my partner from my 2nd day in SL...we were friends and committed to each other
    [18:54] Tycho Spyker: yes, it is faster
    [18:54] Mlita Pennell: oh cool gracie
    [18:54] Ahmad Hosho: may sl is a good place to find a wife
    [18:54] Ahmad Hosho: is a good place to have worser drama than it in RL.
    [18:55] Tycho Spyker: i think because relationships form here on an intellectual level first
    [18:55] Mlita Pennell: yes Tycho but .. it's 50/50 like in RL .. whether those human interactions in SL as in RL will last
    [18:55] Mlita Pennell: no guarantees
    [18:55] Ahmad Hosho: tycho: yes, and having a house and meeting socitey with her.. makes u test ur marriage.
    [18:55] Tycho Spyker: no, definitely not
    [18:55] Gracie Price: laughs...never
    [18:55] Tycho Spyker: haha
    [18:55] Mlita Pennell: lmao
    [18:55] Ahmad Hosho: i will leave after 5 minutes btw, when the meeting is done :) just to not surprise u
    [18:56] Ahmad Hosho lights his final cigar
    [18:56] Gracie Price: guys...enjoyed the conversation...but I have a class to go to...I need to get smarter :-)
    [18:56] Ahmad Hosho: oh one more thing: i finally can smoke here
    [18:56] Mlita Pennell: lol ahmad.. beats smoking in rl
    [18:56] Ahmad Hosho: something i would never do in RL, and have fun gracie.
    [18:56] Mlita Pennell: lol gracie
    [18:56] Gracie Price: Hugs Ahmad :-)
    [18:56] Mlita Pennell: nice to meeet u gracie
    [18:56] Ahmad Hosho: hugs gracie back
    [18:56] Ahmad Hosho: please say hi to cal.
    [18:56] Tycho Spyker: bye Gracie
    [18:57] Tycho Spyker: nice to meet you
    [18:57] Buffy Munro: bye gracie
    [18:57] Gracie Price: will do...hehe...
    [18:57] Gracie Price poofs out.
    [18:57] Ahmad Hosho: i try to remember what surprised me too here, they were big list
    [18:57] Ahmad Hosho: lol
    [18:58] Mlita Pennell: lol
    [18:58] Ahmad Hosho: hmmm let me tell u a point but i hope i dont offend any one
    [18:58] Ahmad Hosho: dont look at me like that tycho, it doesnt mean u
    [18:58] Ahmad Hosho: but i discovered men has less taste than women in clothes
    [18:58] Mlita Pennell: i think my surprise is the ability to actually form a romantic relationship and actually taking it to rl and making it work in rl..
    [18:59] Mlita Pennell: lol ahmad.. omg so true hahah
    [18:59] Tycho Spyker: LOL
    [18:59] Tycho Spyker: as always, in RL too
    [18:59] Tycho Spyker: hahaha
    [18:59] Buffy Munro: lol
    [18:59] Mlita Pennell: lol buffy ..
    [18:59] Ahmad Hosho: lol buffy yes
    [18:59] Mlita Pennell: ahmad leads a sheltered life in rl buffy hahahahahah
    [18:59] Ahmad Hosho: cause i found it is an international problem!
    [18:59] Buffy Munro: hahaha
    [19:00] Ahmad Hosho: but in a socitey full of designers it is like eh yeah no heavens.. we wear good..
    [19:00] Mlita Pennell: not many good men designrs tho
    [19:00] Ahmad Hosho: looking at the outer world made some sense.
    [19:01] Mlita Pennell: even men designers go to producing women's clothing
    [19:01] Ahmad Hosho: milta, sure there are .. but does men even care
    [19:01] Mlita Pennell: nope that's the reason why
    [19:01] Ahmad Hosho: man normally wears anything and says i am a man so what
    [19:01] Mlita Pennell: but we women do .. u all look uggglie hahahahaah
    [19:01] Buffy Munro: hahahaaha
    [19:01] Buffy Munro: lmao
    [19:01] Mlita Pennell: hihihi
    [19:01] Ahmad Hosho: omg respect my suit mlita
    [19:02] Buffy Munro: hahahah
    [19:02] Ahmad Hosho: 200 L uploads
    [19:02] Buffy Munro: lol
    [19:02] Mlita Pennell: lolol ahmad.. of course u and tycho the exception .. *cough and nearly choke"
    [19:02] Mlita Pennell: lol
    [19:02] Buffy Munro: haha
    [19:02] Ahmad Hosho: ah ok
    [19:02] Mlita Pennell: hihi
    [19:02] Mlita Pennell: kiddding
    [19:02] Mlita Pennell: ur suit look great
    [19:02] Ahmad Hosho moves the dust from his stylish jacket
    [19:02] Buffy Munro: some girls like a guy to look rough and ready
    [19:02] Ahmad Hosho: :P
    [19:02] Tycho Spyker: i must say that fashion being such a big thing here surprised me
    [19:03] Ahmad Hosho: tycho yes
    [19:03] Mlita Pennell: lol buffy .. depends what ur asking them to do?
    [19:03] Buffy Munro: haha
    [19:03] Mlita Pennell: lift the furniture buffy or somthing else u care to share? lmao
    [19:03] Ahmad Hosho: and the whole big gap between the men taste from america and the men taste from europe.. in regrads of fashion.
    [19:03] Buffy Munro: i dont ask, is them asking what they can do for me
    [19:03] Buffy Munro: lmao
    [19:03] Mlita Pennell: true true buffy
    [19:03] Ahmad Hosho: some americans are classy ofcours, i just speak about the mass.
    [19:03] Mlita Pennell: well yes
    [19:03] Mlita Pennell: european men in rl are more into their fashion
    [19:04] Buffy Munro: are you kidding me
    [19:04] Mlita Pennell: unless ur talking to US men who are either gay or metrosexual lol
    [19:04] Buffy Munro: men i the uk dont care
    [19:04] Buffy Munro: lol
    [19:04] Tycho Spyker: haha
    [19:04] Mlita Pennell: lol buffy .. come to london hahah ..
    [19:04] Ahmad Hosho: because nothing bad in UK any way
    [19:04] Buffy Munro: the minority care
    [19:04] Tycho Spyker: in big metropolitan areas in the US, men tend to care more
    [19:04] Ahmad Hosho: yep
    [19:04] Mlita Pennell: it's annoying to date men that has more toiletries than u do lmao
    [19:05] Buffy Munro: lol
    [19:05] Buffy Munro: couldnt do that
    [19:05] Mlita Pennell: fight for the bathroom is a pain lol
    [19:05] Buffy Munro: oh god no way!
    [19:05] Ahmad Hosho: thank u all for
    [19:05] Buffy Munro: LOL
    [19:05] Ahmad Hosho: allowing me to hang with u :)
    [19:05] Ahmad Hosho: it is time for me to leave
    [19:05] Buffy Munro: manly man thank you
    [19:05] Buffy Munro: hahah
    [19:05] Tycho Spyker: :)
    [19:05] Mlita Pennell: ty ahmad
    [19:05] Sidda Leigh is Online
    [19:05] Ahmad Hosho: ty tycho! :)
    [19:06] Tycho Spyker: i have to be going as well
    [19:06] Tycho Spyker: yw Ahmad
    [19:06] Tycho Spyker: hope to catch the next chat
    [19:06] Ahmad Hosho: yes me too tycho

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